Jason Xenopoulos

Bruce Whitfield: Today's guest is Jason Xenopolous, the Chief Vision Officer and CEO for New York City at VMLY&R.

He’s one of the founders of internet businesses in South Africa, digital agencies in South Africa. He once wanted to be a filmmaker, give Steven Spielberger a run for his money instead, he went into the corporate world and, for a while was the youngest Chief Executive of a JSE listed company.

“When I came back from studying at New York University, my intention was to make that film. It turned out to be much harder to get the film funded than I thought it would and that's what led me in to starting a web development company and, that led to relationship with Primedia and, then eventually Metropolis. So, after Metropolis failed, I pulled the script out of the draw, dusted it off and made the film and, so many ways it had taken me eight years from the time I started writing the script to actually getting it produced. So, it was very much the fulfilment of a lifelong dream. Out of the failure of one thing, emerged the success of another and I think I've realized that you know, when something doesn't go the way you planned it often opens up another door.”

Bruce Whitfield: It's been an adventurous 20 years or so, Jason Xenopolous.

Jason Xenopolous: It must certainly has been. The world of media has changed very rapidly over that time and I feel like I've been surfing that wave.

Bruce Whitfield: I mean, is it a case of surfing the wave or trying to find new ways of doing things in media because the media has been up for grabs, really the digital media has been up for grabs for two decades now.

Jason Xenopolous: That's true. I think to some extent it is both of those things. I mean, I do feel like surfing the wave and taking advantage of new opportunities are in many ways the same thing because I think that you know, I sort of came out of University and into the world of communications as a profession at the time that the internet was really becoming mainstream, the world wide web had just been sort of popularized and that, you know triggered a complete change in the way brands communicate with consumers, in the way media companies take content to audiences.

And so, the way that I talk about is really just that that sort of wave of change that one could either you know, sort of buckle down and get gets smashed by it or you could actually, you know, see it as an opportunity and ride it and that's what I've tried to do.

Bruce Whitfield: You were, for a while the Chief Executive of Metropolis. You were 28 years old, you were the youngest CEO of a JSE listed company. Those were the heavy days of dot.com boom and then the bust and, Metropolis sadly didn't work out, but you must have learned a hell of a lot… not only about the internet and running businesses online but also about the difficulties, I suppose of running a listed business.

Jason Xenopolous: Absolutely, Bruce. I think that you know Metropolis was sort of, you know very much a sort of, forged by fire experience. It was as you say, the heavy says of the dot.com boom and bust. When we listed Metropolis, our shares kind of quadrupled in value over night and then fell through the floor six months later and, of course, it was a, you know, it was a pattern, in that we were not alone in experiencing. It was something that companies across the world and particularly in Silicon Valley were experiencing as well.

It did, all of my experiences with media have taught me a lot about communicating with in a connected and sort of digital world. But, what Metropolis taught me particularly was, you about some of the challenges and difficulties and in many ways, I feel that the what didn't work in Metropolis has provided me with some of the deepest most profound lessons of my career.

Bruce Whitfield: Did you feel like a bit of a genius as your share price went up four times in a matter of weeks and suddenly, you're riding the crest of this wave, to torture that analogy a bit and, suddenly when it all goes pear-shaped. Did you still feel it like a bit of a genius? Did you feel like a failure at the tender age of 28 where, you’ve overseen this highly public fall of a company.

Jason Xenopolous: To be honest. I don't think I ever felt like a genius. I did feel incredibly fortunate and very much like we were in the right place at the right time until I discovered that we were in the wrong place at the wrong time. But I think that, you know to be completely honest and this is maybe it's sort of baring my soul a little bit to some extent, you know, I didn't feel like much of a success at all through their period and including the time when the share price was going through the roof because I had set out in my career with an intention to become, you know, a writer and a film director and you know and an artist so to speak and I had I'd taken the sort of unexpected and somewhat surprising segway into the world of business and found myself, you know as the CEO of this listed company at a fairly young age.

And, many people around me particularly those who had Ambitions to succeed in business, you know, thought I must feel like I’ve fulfilled my life's ambition. Actually, I felt like a bit of a sell out and a failure, even at the most successful points during that period just because I felt like I wasn't following my you know, my true part.

It's taken me a while to figure out what that was and to you know, to maybe appreciate that success a little more in hindsight.

Bruce Whitfield: But, that gave you, I suppose when Metropolis went, it gave you the space then to realize their dream and you worked on and released the film called Promised Land, you wrote the script for Promised Land, you won the Best Screenplay award at the 2002 Tokyo International Film Festival. I mean, that was must have been another high point. I mean, it was one of those things where that's a big box ticked, and you've been globally recognized for that work.

Jason Xenopolous: Yes, that very much was a box ticked. I think that, you know, when I came back from studying at New York University, my intention was to make that film. It turned out to be much harder to get the film funded than I thought it would and that's what led me in to starting a web development company and, that led to relationship with Primedia and, then eventually Metropolis. So, after Metropolis failed, I pulled the script out of the draw, dusted it off and made the film and, so many ways it had taken me eight years from the time I started writing the script to actually getting it produced. So, it was very much the fulfilment of a lifelong dream and, so, out of the failure of one thing, emerged the success of another and I think I've started to be a little more philosophical about these things and realised that, when something doesn't go the way you planned it often opens up another door.

Bruce Whitfield: Was it commercially successful because I mean, another internet pioneer in South Africa, Ronnie Apteker, one of the founders of Internet Solutions, I think made about ten movies. He's the most commercially successful one, Material broke even. I think these things are labours of love and if the internet was tough in the early days, making a movie is a Mug's Game unless you are a Hollywood film producer with big budgets behind you and lots of money to burn and, great distribution.

Jason Xenopolous: Absolutely. It was not and let me repeat, it was not a commercial success. It was a critical success though, you know did very well at film festivals around the world, it won many awards in addition to the Tokyo Best Screenplay award and, as such created a calling card, both for myself and for many of the other people that were involved. So, I think you know many people were able to create opportunities for themselves off the back of it, but it certainly never generated profits.

In fact, we only met able to make Promised Land because we put together a deferral scheme in which all of the actors and the crew and everyone else involved in the project actually came on board and deferred their fees. We would never have been able to fund the film. Otherwise at the time there were many international funds being serviced in South Africa, no real South African content. So, when a film came around that felt like it was our own story people were amazing. They really leaned in and they, you know, they got involved and they didn't get paid there, you know, even some of the companies that the car rental company, etc all put their services in on a deferred basis. As a result, during the film there was a joke among the crew that that the film wasn't called The Promised Land it was called The Promised Rand. Unfortunately, that Promised Rand never materialised.

I think, everyone involved in the film, you know, fortunately and I'm very proud of this, I think is still very proud and grateful to have been part of it. It was a very special project, but nobody made money out of it.

Bruce Whitfield: But, the fact that you've only made one tells the story that we need to know, I think.

Jason Xenopolous: Yes. I actually did make a couple of other films after that but that was definitely an indication of you know, what one could hope for commercially making films in South Africa. I think you know, there is no doubt about the fact that there are some great stories of commercial success in the film industry not so many in South Africa, you know, where the where the audience's tiny to be honest. I sat on the board of Ster-Kinekor for some time after we acquired Ster-Kinekor at Primedia to fill out our entertainment strategy and one of the things that the team there always used to remind me was the fact that South Africa makes up 0.6% of the global audience or film so, not very big.

Bruce Whitfield: one part of the economy that has grown and leaps and bounds and they've been some very successful digital agencies launched and you did that in 2010. You founded an agency called Native in 2013. Native then became part of the VML network, then became known as NativeVML and again, you went on the global awards acquisition trail. You did well at Cannes in 2017 and 2018 and, then you got yourselves named as the Global Entertainment Agency of the year. And, this is my sense that you finally found that groove that you were sort of were meandering towards for a long time.

Jason Xenopolous: So, I think that's absolutely true. I mean, many people I think, in the industry in South Africa for many years thought I was schizophrenic because I was you know, I had written and directed feature films. I was a Creative Director at an agency. I'd started businesses. I was directing commercials. I was directing feature films and, I think people were kind of saying well, what are you are you a film director your creative director you, are you in advertising or are you in entertainment? You need to choose. And, in fact, fortunately what history has shown is that I actually didn't need to choose because all of these things have converged and it is in the convergence of advertising, entertainment, digital and traditional, the merging of all of these things that has really created, you know, the opportunities that exist for us today and certainly the opportunities that we try to harness at Native. And now, you know, VML and VMLY&R.

Bruce Whitfield:  Isn't the internet a magical thing? I mean, the internet has connected the world like nothing else has ever done before. It's deeply destructive in some respects, some social media is absolutely toxic and awful. But the world, on balance is considerably better off today than it was 20 years ago courtesy of the connectivity that the internet has brought.

Jason Xenopolous: When I first got involved with the internet in early 90s, it was very much the you know, the dawn of a new age. I think there was a very idealistic view that we all had of the internet. It was going to be this egalitarian playing field, the great leveller, the thing that would dismantle that, you know, the kind of unfair hierarchical control that corporations had over the ordinary people.

In fact, of course, the internet is kind of been hijacked by you know, by corporations and has been turned into the biggest amplifier of wealth in, you know, in history. I think, though that there you know, I believe very strongly that as human beings as all, you know, beyond human beings as old sort of sentient things. We have an innate desire to be connected. In fact, one might argue that we are already fundamentally connected and was simply, you know, kind of re-exploring those connections.

The internet really gives us a sort of physical manifestation of that interdependence, that interconnectedness that we all share and in that sense, it's a giant stick forward on the evolutionary scale as we move from you know, and separate individuals to are more connected and collective kind of consciousness.

Unfortunately, though the internet and particularly, as you say social media, in creating those connections seems to have created a whole lot of unintended consequences that lead to a paradoxical disconnection a kind of these echo chambers in which people become, you know, completely, their biases become amplified and as you say the sort of toxic nature of social media in which kind of hate and anger seems to be amplified and of course fake news, which is you know is bringing into question the sort of fabric of you know of reality and what we can believe. So, there is no doubt, you know, both an upside and a downside.

I think, it is a fundamentally important and unavoidable step in our journey forward, but I think it requires, you know, a large degree of introspection and caution to be taken in, in how we apply this technology.

Bruce Whitfield:  Nowadays, you're based in New York at VMLY&R. You are the Chief Vision Officer, which is one of those techy titles that doesn't mean very much other than you’re very important. How do you navigate then, a New York environment as a South African, as a creative, as somebody who has traversed the world and has had the this multiplicity of experiences.

Jason Xenopolous: So, New York has been interesting a really amazing challenge. I studied in New York when I was in my 20s and so in many ways, I had always wanted to come back to New York. It was a little bit like a homecoming. So, I'm actually, it is true, I have this Group Chief Vision Officer role. Actually, that role is was one that referred mainly to the fact that that I had a very strong involvement in developing the new positioning and kind of go to market strategy for the VMLY&R, and creating VMLY&R out of the merger between VMLY&R in the first place. But really, my focus now is on two things. I'm the CEO of the New York office and I'm one of two Chief Creative Officers for North America. So, my focus is very much on trying to build the New York office after a massive merger into an agency that is capable of really being at the forefront of where marketing and communication is going and as Chief Creative Officer to really, you know to help create an environment in which we are able to develop and deliver regularly and consistently, you know the kind of work that will really take us to the next level.

So, you know, it's obviously moving to a new country as a huge challenge. I have a wife and teenage triplets. So, you know, we have we put a big family over here, but it's been amazing. They've all settled in really well and the opportunities are immense.

Bruce Whitfield:  Is it very mad men? I mean, is it is it at all like the TV show in the 1960s?

Jason Xenopolous:  So, it's funny some people tease me about that because I live in an area in one of the river towns in Westchester and I commute into the city every day exactly like Don Draper did. Do you know one of the one of the agencies that was part of that? You know what madman was based on you know, Bruce, unfortunately, I think those were the kind of the Halcyon Days of advertising we don't drink Bourbon at 10 o'clock in the morning and we don't get to kind of walk in and write a tagline on a flip chart in in drop mic and walk up the room and you know ignore clients at that unlike what we do.

No, it's not very much like that. I think, we live in a way more competitive world in which clients are far more demanding than they ever seem to be of Don Draper's and it doesn't feel too much like that.

Bruce Whitfield:  What's next at? I know it's an early stage of VMLY&R in New York, but do you sort of see America as you're as you're hunting ground as your playpen now?

Jason Xenopolous:  I think so. I mean, I don't know about America, but I think global, so I think we're you know, we're loving being here, but I think the for me the intention was really about creating a bigger canvas on which to work. I love South Africa and I think we did some amazing work there and you know, it's um, obviously remained very close to everyone at VML in South Africa. We're all still part of the same network. So I think there's no doubt about the fact that from a creative point of view and an opportunity for the view, South Africa and Africa offers tremendous opportunity. But, I think in terms of developing work, you know for a bigger audience a broader audience, a more global audience, that was always and you know and aspiration of mine and this really creates that canvas and you know, my intention now is to try and fill it as best as possible

Bruce Whitfield:  Beyond the Personal Achievement of teenage triplets, they've survived into teenagehood, which is admirable.  Kids one at a time are a hard enough. But, your biggest professional achievement. What do you regard as that one moment where you went boy, this is it, I think I've cracked it.

Jason Xenopolous:  I think it's more amazing that I survived until now then they survived that's a difficult question. I think that, you know, there are there are many things in my life that I wish I had done differently or I'd done better and then there are things that I, you know, I really I really relish certainly Promised Land even though it's by no means a perfect film and you know watching it again it's, you know, clearly a first film but the process of writing and directing and getting that film made was I was a professional highlight for me.

I think the other though, I think the other two I'd say, the one is I founded a number of businesses but Native which grew into as you said, Native VML and now VML South Africa and you know was certainly something that I'm incredibly proud of and, is very much a career highlight. The third I think is being named Entertainment Agency of the Year at Cannes. I think a small, you know, relatively speaking South African agency to be named the best Entertainment Agency on the planet at the biggest awards shown in advertising was something that I think, I still remain amazed by.  And, particularly because branded entertainment is the area of marketing and communication that I am most interested in. It is the point of convergence between the many kind of passions of my life being both marketing and entertainment and film.

Bruce Whitfield:  What is it about this country, about South Africa their boxes so far above its weight in the world of advertising, in the world of branding, in the world of digital agencies, as you've dispelled out.

Jason Xenopolous:  I'm not sure I think that South Africa has always you're right as always had a good reputation as far as advertising is concerned. I think, we went through a period where a lot of the work that we were winning for as a country was good, but it was very much in the more tried and tested older channels in television and radio in particular print, but we really battled to break through into cyber and mobile and entertainment and these other areas which, you know more recently we have started to make inroads, which is great.

I think that you know, overall what Africa has in South Africa has but I say Africa, even though I know as we all know Africa's many different things and every country in Africa has a different set of dynamics, but there is there is a there is a cultural renaissance a kind of creative revolution that's happening in Africa that you know, I haven't witnessed anywhere else in the world. And, I don't talk about this in advertising specifically, more in terms of music, fashion, art, you know, the kind of things that are happening on the street, you go to, you know, the Zeitz MOCAA in Cape Town and see some of the work that's emerging from South African, the African diaspora at the moment, it is it is clearly the exploding identity and voice of a, you know, people or a culture that has been suppressed for many years and is now, you know kind of finding its way and I think that there’s something incredibly vibrant and vital about that.

So, I think South African and Africa has a huge, you know, continues to have a huge amount of overall creative power, that's if channeled correctly is, you know, I think going to continue to make a bigger and bigger impact around the world.

Bruce Whitfield:  This week’s Solutionist Thinker, Jason Xenopolous, the Chief Executive for New York City at VMLY&R. Thank you very much for joining us on Solutionist Thinking.